#138: The Forests That Pull the Sky – A Conversation with Alpha (and Peter)
Highlighting Peter's experimental findings - (Again)
What if the key to understanding Earth's vital systems isn’t in the numbers we’ve been tracking, but in the questions we haven’t asked?
In post #137, the focus wasn’t on pinning down answers but on opening doors—leaning into questions about whether our models of Earth’s systems might be missing something fundamental.
We measure greenhouse gases, temperature shifts, and carbon flows. But isn’t that like trying to decode a forest by counting leaves? What if the real insights lie in the patterns—flows and feedback loops—that we haven’t thought to measure?
It was Anastassia Makarieva and Victor Gorshkov who first introduced the world to this idea through their work on the biotic pump. Their theory redefined how forests interact with the atmosphere—not as passive recipients of rainfall but as active drivers of moisture transport.
Makarieva and Gorshkov proposed that forests pull moisture inland by creating low-pressure zones through condensation. Their work suggested that evaporation and condensation are not just local processes—they shape entire weather systems, driving winds and redistributing rain across continents.
In exploring condensation implosions and atmospheric flows, Peter Bunyard’s experiments stood out as a continuation of this line of thought. His data mirrored the ideas Makarieva had put forward—showing that air doesn’t just move because of temperature gradients. Condensation itself creates tiny implosions that tug at the atmosphere like invisible threads.
Rather than conclusions, these ideas left behind questions:
How much of what we call wind is driven by condensation, not just temperature differences?
Could forests play a far larger role in shaping global air circulation than we realize?
Is the scale of the biotic pump greater than previously estimated?
These questions weren’t confined to academic papers.
In a conversation with Alpha Lo, he shared an experiment from his blog—a simple demonstration of how condensation alone can generate force.
It was intuitive, but it sparked curiosity—had someone already tested this at scale?
That curiosity led back to Peter Bunyard’s work.
Peter’s Experiment – Testing the Pull of Condensation
Peter’s setup was straightforward—(link to his paper)
A glass chamber filled with humid air.
Cooling coils to trigger condensation.
An anemometer to measure airflow.
The goal?
Test whether cold air sinking generates airflow—or if condensation pulls harder.
Peter’s results weren’t just interesting… they were precise.
Graph 1 – Cooling Alone Doesn’t Do Much
Peter cooled the chamber.
The red line (temperature) drops by 11°C.
The blue line (partial pressure) barely flickers.
👉 Takeaway: Cold air sinks, but there’s barely any pressure change.
If sinking air drives wind, shouldn’t we see more movement here?
Graph 2 – Minimal Airflow
Next, Peter measured the airflow.
The red line (airflow) stays flat.
👉 Takeaway: The air cools, but doesn’t move much.
So far, this lines up with what critics might expect—cold air sinking alone isn’t enough to stir the air.
Graph 3 – Condensation Changes the Game
Now Peter introduces condensation.
The dark blue line (condensation energy) rises sharply.
The orange line (airflow) jumps every time condensation occurs.
👉 Takeaway: Airflow increases precisely with condensation.
Cold air didn’t do much, but condensation pulls the air.
Graph 4 – Condensation vs. Cold Air Sinking
Now comes the big comparison.
The blue line (condensation energy) dwarfs the orange line (cold air sinking).
👉 Condensation generates 1,000 times more energy. (units for the blue graph is in light blue, units for orange is in red)
The takeaway seems clear—condensation drives far more airflow than cold air sinking.
Scaling to the Amazon – The Power of Implosion Energy
Here’s where the numbers start to shift from experimental to planetary.
The physics follows a simple ratio:
0.17/2.5 – the implosion energy (watts) relative to the latent heat released (watts) during condensation.
If 100 watts of latent heat is released, the implosion energy amounts to 6.8 watts.
Applying this to the Amazon’s 2.25 meters of annual rainfall, the implosion energy sums up to the equivalent of one atomic bomb per second.
That force doesn’t just pull air. It drives humid air 2,500 km inland, explaining how forests deep in the Andes receive as much rainfall as those near the coast.
Condensation, in this view, isn’t just a phase change—it’s an engine shaping the atmospheric flow at continental scales.